Pedigree Dogs Exposed

[Carole]

This may/may not be worth watching. It's on BBC1 at 9.00pm tomorrow (Tuesday night) - it's an expose on health problems in dogs.

[Dragonsausage]

Martin Clunes is presenting isn't he?

[Carole]

Martin Clunes is presenting isn't he?

I don't know ... I know I keep seeing a trailer with him playing a piano with a dog - perhaps that's it?

[pgreen3108]

just this min been on tv yes it is him.

[Karen D]

I have set it to record, it may be very interesting.

[tasha]

I'm going to watch it just out of interest.

[Casiat]

They are 2 seperate programs.

Tonights is an 'investigative journalists' look into the world of pedigree dogs and the health problems they encounter.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7569064.stm

From what I've heard it's a pretty much biased account against the Kennel Club and breeders.

OK there are breeds which have serious problems and someone should step in to stop the idiotic breeders who are exaggerating certain characteristics ie

GSD - sloping backline and exagerated angulation
Bulldog - oversized heads causing neck problems and difficulty having natural births.
Cavaliers - Syringomyolma (sp), slipping patella, heart murmours and eye problems.
Shar Pei - over wrinkled causing excema adn dermatological problems.

And various over breeds with inherent temprement problems (GR, solid Cockers, Staffs, BC's, etc etc)


However I think this program may sensationalise a few bad breeders/breeds.



Martin Clunes programs start next week.

[capricciosababs]

that comments a really good resume of things as far as can see from the tv trailers today!
first thing radio four ran an interview with the RSPCA then KC - very biased reporting in this programme it seems - shall watch it with interest - vets here are also going to tune in will be intereted so see what they say they have ped dog clients as well as cats of course - hope it doesnt make the public think all dog and or cat breeders are the same cos 00 percent are ab good and guard their breeds be they canine or feline its just the odd few... ps bbc 1 lunchtime new story also spoke to RSPCA and the head of KC for his comments - he isnt amused at all! ps hope this isnt an agenda ie hidden - to put the public off peds or shows when it is sincere ?

[jeni]

hmm haven't seen it but do you think they're picking up on extreemes?? i saw a pug the other day that was so squished it was having severe breathing problems poorr pup...

[avalanche]

Yeh, I have been watching the adverts and Richard and Judy who had the programme producers and a rep from the KC on.
If it helps to get rid of breeders who do not consider health and continually breed purely for money then , good, as I don't like to see extremes like squished up pugs and dogs with their bellies scraping the floor and I do sometimes think that people go too far trying to breed the 'perfect' animal doing more damage than good, but I do think they are going for nothing but sensationalism in this programme. They had the RSPCA chief vet saying something like he thought dog shows like Crufts were nothing but freakshows.....will the cat world be the next target?

[Sue_McP]

What an excellent programme....well done BBC

Sue

[Mochali]

I hope its available online :) My OH said it was really interesting!

[tasha]

It was certainly thought provoking!

[Lucia]

It was excellent, despite some terribly upsetting images of dogs at the very beginning - poor things were in dreadful pain and distress, so much so that my poor Graham couldn't bear to watch the rest of the programme.

I had the greatest admiration for the RSPCA vet , Mark Adams (?) - a very straight-talking and well-informed individual, and also for a very courageous and committed lady named Carol Fowler who seemed to be working tirelessly to try to halt the incidence of syringomyelia in Cavalier King Charles Spaniels.

The Kennel Club and many of the dog breeders came out of this very badly indeed - and from the evidence presented, they deserved to - they came across as arrogant and blinkered - personally, while my heart broke for all of the dogs featured, I was in absolute floods of tears at what beautiful 'show quality' German Shepherds have been reduced to - they could scarcely walk! :(

[Casiat]

A very biased program indeed and as usual the RSPCA wheeled out their prize plum Mark Evans who was his usual ill informed judgemental self - will the man not actually read facts and figures instead of preaching his made up vision of the world.......it is a shame they picked on old fuddy duddys to represent the whole world of dog shows.

There are several breeds in the world of dogs (and cats) that need urgent attention Pugs definately closely followed by GSD's and as for that awful woman allowing her CKCS to be used at stud 26 times after being diagnosed with SM - shocking!!!

As for Ridgies being PTS if they are bone without ridges - well shame on you Ridgeback breeders........Boxer breeders gave up drowning white boxers decades ago, colour and markings are the least of your worries.

What the program makers also failed to add was that the boxer with epilepsey and 2 of the CKCS were purchased from 'Puppy farmers' who churn out cast numbers of dogs..............not reputable breeders at all.

Unfortunately Ronnie Irving and Jeff Sampson from the KC didn't come across well at all, in fact I was embarrased by their old fashioned this is the way we always do it attitude.

It needs to be grass root breeders and breed clubs who take a long hard look at the dogs being bred to specify a breed today.


And yes - apparantly 'dear' Jemima is looking at cats next!!

[Soupie]

Well whilst it was an eye opener I found it very very biased - there was nothing of the good in pedigree dogs and all of the bad. The programme should have been balanced and more objective rather than bits being quite frankly sensationlist.

[Sue_McP]

I understand why the programme was made it was not supposed to be balanced it was supposed to shock and high light what some breeds suffer .....there are 100's of breeders who want to do right by their breeds but also 100's who will get there by whatever cost to the animal....the public are not stupid and do not for instance think all are tarred with the same brush....sometimes these "breeders" need a shove in the right direction and exposure is just that....its the same in the CF ( repairs of hernias etc etc in cats being shown, winning at whatever cost!), but until the governing bodies stand up and say no more then the breeders will continue.

Times have not changed, when I first started out Vet Nursing (25 yrs ago ) I found it very difficult to be civil with a local Dalmation breeder, she would cull the puppies with spots that were linked or no spots at all..you can see it from both sides, lovely healthy puppies or a commodity that has no value whatsoever because the governing body says so!

I still say well done BBC, afterall did the "chicken" programmes not change our habits!

Sue

[spicey]

Oh my goodness... watched this programme last night! What an eye opener! I now feel really selfish wanting a Boston Terrier (even though they weren't featured, they do still have genetic problems... now I know why!!). Shocking footage but I think it was good that they put it on, for people to see just how much these problems cause so much heart break in people's families. :( Very sad and upsetting.

[Banana]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00d4ljk/

[Mochali]

Thanks Banana :)

[DizzyJenni]

I'll have to watch this on the iplayer

[Carole]

I've always wanted a Cavalier - and was aware of some of the health problems but not the whole extent :(

Do they keep changing the breed standard of dogs? If not it's just the same as my Siamese standards question - why do the animals look so different now as to what they did 20-30 years ago?

I found the show GSDs absolutely horrendous - I just can't understand how anyone who presumably loves GSDs enough to want to breed them could want them to have that awful hind leg deformity, and for judges to rate them so highly when they can barely walk - well, shame on them.

Why do Bassets have to have all that drooping skin on their legs? Whats the point? It isn't attractive and it can only lead to health problems? Why on EARTH do people want to breed them that way??????

All very sad.

[Banana]

I think anyone watching this should be braced for it to be upsetting..

God help the GCCF when she comes for them :shock:

[tasha]

Although I can understand that some of these breeders are causing problems through inbreeding etc I did find the programme slightly biased against breeders and a little sensationalist. I don't think the BBC are right to tarr all breeders with the same brush as there are many who are genuinely trying to improve the situation.

I was upset at the breeder who had her ridgeless puppies put to sleep, could she not find loving pet homes for them? After all, Siamese breeders don't have kittens put to sleep with tail kinks.

[Casiat]

Excellent post Tasha!!

Although I have to admit the two old buffoons from the KC made me angry - Caroline Kisko the KC secretary would have done a much better job.

The double standards of the likes of Mark Evans is still making me seeth!! He is the head vet of a society that advocates and seeks through the courts the destruction of dogs that happen to 'look like' pit bulls......never mind of they've been proved to be not PB or have excellent temprements, no he believes they should die..........so when will Jemima do a program about his views on that subject then???


I got very angry in the hairdressers this morning with all the chatter about it......the general public now think that dog shows are cruel, anyone who breeds pedigree anilmals are just in it to make money and all pedigrees will fall apart at the seems!!! I'm afraid they all got my views on this program!!!

My hair may have to grow very long now!!

[Carole]

I'm sure it did give a skewed view and only show the very worst side of the world of dog breeding.

I still don't see why anyone would want to produce such extreme dogs as those show GSDs. Who in their right minds wants to breed dogs that can barely walk??????

[Banana]

I have just watched the whole programme on iplayer and found it very distressing..

I feel the owners of some of the dogs should also have taken the wrath of the programme makers for keeping the dogs alive when they clearly were in pain or had no quality of life.

I'm not sure it was totally biased, although I can see why some people might think it is.. they did have a breeder on there that does not support breeding with cavaliers that have the word I cant spell - and she does support screening..

I do have to say at this point and although it wont be a popular point - similar issues DO go on in the Uk Cat Fancy - althought it is denied that it does.

There have been many cameras in the GCCF/TICA/FB show halls recently - something that has not been seen for many years - the reporter is obviously very clever and I feel it would be very easy to do a similar sensationalist programme on the Cat Showing World..

I agree that the dog world has gone too far - but I dont think the cat world can sit in judgement on this one... :(

[sailaice]

I'm going to watch this tonight thanks for the link Anna.

I must admit OH has wanted a Bulldog for a long long time and when we enquired about one we were told that if we wanted to breed it was much easier and they had c sections which worked out well as we worked we could get the time off... this was the breeder saying this!

Needless to say we didn't get one from her, we still actually don't have one.

[Dragonsausage]

Very interesting programme if a little sensationalist.

Just had a very interesting conversation with my old vet who will be taking care of Jinksy while we are away in September about this and other issues. He said that especially in the case of the KC Spaniel that the breeding pool may already be so compromised by the Sringo and the heart problems that it would be impossible to find a healthy strain. We may loose this lovely little breed for good if any action is taken - but if that's what it takes. I also intend to talk to Geoffrey Clifton-Brown about this when parliament resumes - he's a good sort and may have interesting things to say on the matter.

Horrified by the Ridgeback culling too - my friend has a Ridgeback and I had absolutely no idea that the ridge is actually a form of Spina Bifida.

It just seems such a shame that the KC and even possibly the GCCF can't just have a massive spring clean and unearth all these grubby little corners, admit that certain practices in the name of beauty are wrong and cruel. That breed standards should be altered to take account of the animals welfare and not just support current fashion. That breeders who discover a problem with their lines and actually do something about it should be supported and not have whispering campaigns against them and their animals.

I don't believe that the vast majority of breeders do any of these things deliberatley at all. There just doesn't seem to be proper information regarding possible/real problems, the governing bodies seem to be in denial and, therefore, breeders are not aware that this or that may be hereditary no proper studies are carried out and the whole thing is swept under the carpet.

Sorry for rant - hope it made sense and I haven't offended anyone. I truly believe that the breeders on this site are all of the best kind. xxxx

[Soupie]

I understand why the programme was made it was not supposed to be balanced it was supposed to shock and high light what some breeds suffer .....there are 100's of breeders who want to do right by their breeds but also 100's who will get there by whatever cost to the animal....the public are not stupid and do not for instance think all are tarred with the same brush....sometimes these "breeders" need a shove in the right direction and exposure is just that....its the same in the CF ( repairs of hernias etc etc in cats being shown, winning at whatever cost!), but until the governing bodies stand up and say no more then the breeders will continue.

Times have not changed, when I first started out Vet Nursing (25 yrs ago ) I found it very difficult to be civil with a local Dalmation breeder, she would cull the puppies with spots that were linked or no spots at all..you can see it from both sides, lovely healthy puppies or a commodity that has no value whatsoever because the governing body says so!

I still say well done BBC, afterall did the "chicken" programmes not change our habits!

Sue

I agree to some extent Sue but Joe Public on the street will now think that all Pedigree breeding is like this .....

What was shown did need highlighting without a doubt but I think this will have done massive harm to reputable breeders as well as those they wanted to uncover......

Still to me good investigative reporting shows some of the other side of the coin as well instead of making out that the bad is the "norm" :blush

[Leah]

I'm going to watch this tonight thanks for the link Anna.

I must admit OH has wanted a Bulldog for a long long time and when we enquired about one we were told that if we wanted to breed it was much easier and they had c sections which worked out well as we worked we could get the time off... this was the breeder saying this!

Needless to say we didn't get one from her, we still actually don't have one.
I knew a lady who bred them 15 yrs ago, and this was very accepted even then. It is very hard now. My Lucas comes from a breeder who hip scored and bred responsibly but he has horrendous hip dysplasia, when it showed up at about 10 mnths, there was a real question about whether he would be able to have any quality of life at all :( Luckily he has responded well to cartrophen injections.

[Banana]

I think for me what it highlighted was that there are problems in the breeds - the biggest problem is that in the main, the show scene are not acknowledging it as a problem...and the KC are not taking enough action to inform them that it is and by token it is being allowed to continue to the detriment of the health of the dogs..

[Dragonsausage]

Now see Anna just said what I meant in about 300 less words!!! lol

Hear Hear!

[spicey]

Please tell me proper GCCF breeders (not BYB) do NOT breed grandfather cats to granddaughter cats do they? God help the GCCF if this programme comes after them if this practice is also allowed in the cat world!! Ste is even having second thoughts about us getting pedigree cats after watching this! :( :(

[Soupie]

I think for me what it highlighted was that there are problems in the breeds - the biggest problem is that in the main, the show scene are not acknowledging it as a problem...and the KC are not taking enough action to inform them that it is and by token it is being allowed to continue to the detriment of the health of the dogs..

Yes it did to me but to joe bloggs on the street with no kknowledge of breeding at all or pedigrees at all I think it would come across very differently catfrustrated

Spicey your OH's reaction is the one I expect people with little or knowledge of breeding or pedigrees might have :catembaressed:

[Leah]

I saw somewhere that a dedicated shower ped/lover actually bought her latest ped from a tiny hobby breeder rather than a show kennel as she believed it was her best chance at avoiding some of the horrendous autoimmune diseases that she has struggled with in other beloved dogs.

[Leah]

Please tell me proper GCCF breeders (not BYB) do NOT breed grandfather cats to granddaughter cats do they? God help the GCCF if this programme comes after them if this practice is also allowed in the cat world!! Ste is even having second thoughts about us getting pedigree cats after watching this! :( :(.
Andrea if Ste has strong feelings, the best thing to do is to ask your prospective breeder :) They should be happy to show you the ped and then you can make your own decision. :)

[Lucia]

Spicey your OH's reaction is the one I expect people with little or knowledge of breeding or pedigrees might have :catembaressed:

Well, just going by the pages of condemnatory posts on the BBC forums and Digital Spy Television forums, that would seem to be the reaction of a very large proportion of the viewing public.

[Nance]

:( it won't let me watch it.
Says for viewing in the UK only. :bangdesk:

[Mochali]

Oh poo, its the same when I tried watching somethng on sky one :(

[spicey]

.
Andrea if Ste has strong feelings, the best thing to do is to ask your prospective breeder :) They should be happy to show you the ped and then you can make your own decision. :)
I've tried to tell him Leah that yes, there are bad breeders out there (ie. BYB) and they probably do allow this sort of breeding (if not worse!) but if you are careful and know what you're looking for you'll be alright! It's Ste that wanted the siamese in the first place as he had one as a kid... hope he doesn't start having second thoughts!

[Soupie]

Well, just going by the pages of condemnatory posts on the BBC forums and Digital Spy Television forums, that would seem to be the reaction of a very large proportion of the viewing public.

Yes - what is happening is horrifying and I was nearly sick watching last night and I do think things need to be done somehow by someone.

BUT there is good in the pedigree world too and some of the comments there sadden me.

[Sue_McP]

All are to blame, KC, breeders, Judges & Public for buying.. but as in the CF the "extremes" are being bred purposely for the show ring....some Judge must have judged a CKC with a really small domed shaped head and commented on how "beautiful" it was...then other CKC breeders said that's the winning formula lets get the head smaller....like the GSD's (that made me cry) is the aim to get the slope of the back so low that their hocks will be on the ground!

I am not sure what will happen to the CF...will breeders continue to breed some breeds into utter genetic decline....is the point of breeding show stoppers worth the total disregard to suffering and misery....and no doubt there will be breeders out there who say..." so what if life expectancy is 3 years...that's the price you pay to win"


Sue

[potentspirit]

I found the programme very thought provoking,and upsetting - I think some people do not realise what they are doing, and more who do, but keep on doing it.
I cannot imagine anyone whose Ridgeback gave birth to a litter of pups, and then having the `unsuitable` ones euthenased.

[Carole]

I realise that there had to be very close, daughter to father type breeding at first - Siamese all come from a tiny number of foundation cats - or when you are introducing new colours, or types like the Rex mutation (which is what it is) but you have to be very careful about what you are doing, and I wouldn't want to see it in the normal Siamese population.


It says something about the weirdness of the human mind that it can get so fixed on this "ideal" standard of beauty in a dog that people can plough on trying to breed dogs to achieve that ideal regardless of health.

The film didn't even mention mental instability among Cocker Spaniels ....

[Banana]

But even from a point of view who has some knowledge of pedigrees and breeding (ie me!) I do feel there was also the standpoint of the responsible breeder - the one who stood up and said "Someone has to do something and if thats what I have to do - thats what I will do"

The show did highlight the bad aspect of pedigree breeding, I agree, but its that breeding that has to stop and if that makes buyers more aware and makes them ask more questions of the breeders, then I welcome it as a breeder..

If this programme stops the public buying the pedigree animals that are bred not for health but for extreme show type that effects the life of the cat - then I welcome it...

Bulldogs have to have casaerians Louise because they CANNOT give birth naturally - if there was ever a reason NOT to buy a dog - Im sure that must be it... :bignono:

I want to go and buy a rhodesian ridgeback now without the ridgeback! :lol:

[Leah]

Rage Syndrome is not limited to Cockers Carole, has been documented in several extremely popular 'family' breeds :(
It has been recognised in certain lines in the solid Cockers, but Breeders have been working for a long time now [I've been told] to move away from those suspect lines.

[spicey]

But even from a point of view who has some knowledge of pedigrees and breeding (ie me!) I do feel there was also the standpoint of the responsible breeder - the one who stood up and said "Someone has to do something and if thats what I have to do - thats what I will do"

The show did highlight the bad aspect of pedigree breeding, I agree, but its that breeding that has to stop and if that makes buyers more aware and makes them ask more questions of the breeders, then I welcome it as a breeder..

If this programme stops the public buying the pedigree animals that are bred not for health but for extreme show type that effects the life of the cat - then I welcome it...

Bulldogs have to have casaerians Louise because they CANNOT give birth naturally - if there was ever a reason NOT to buy a dog - Im sure that must be it... :bignono:

I want to go and buy a rhodesian ridgeback now without the ridgeback! :lol:
Very well said Anna!!

[Leah]

I agree to some extent Sue but Joe Public on the street will now think that all Pedigree breeding is like this .....

What was shown did need highlighting without a doubt but I think this will have done massive harm to reputable breeders as well as those they wanted to uncover......

Still to me good investigative reporting shows some of the other side of the coin as well instead of making out that the bad is the "norm" :blush
I think it is as misleading to lump all the buyers/ public together as it is to lump all the breeders together. I have talked about it with several people [not breeders] and the reaction they had was revulsion over the undesirable practises and a keener awareness of the sort of questions they would ask. I don't really see how that can be a problem for anyone who breeds responsibly with awareness and respect for their chosen breeds' wellbeing and welfare. I would be pleased if I thought someone had taken the time to do a bit of research and asked some questions that be happy to answer.

[capricciosababs]

am adding my thoughts and comments asap -
when I worked for the media we used to try to be UN baised - a long time ago now -
rang the BBC comments line got through
said in brief -
the presenter of the programme and the producers wanted to sensationalise things -
okay - some breeders of the KC have gone way way too far as also have a few feline breeders - BUT
- and believe me this is a very good but -
its bad PR for the pedigrees sectors at this time -
what outcome if the public dump theeir ped dogs and or cats?
90 per\cent are okay people be thay big name breeders or pets people -
this is the last thing we want before the nect NEC and the RSPCA might be okay in telling us all this but that isnt the way the publics seeing things tonight!
so HOW do we all act TOGETHER - so please for once as GCCF TICA - and also those in th who dont say things usually come forfard its OUR CATS AS WELL ! - etc breed clubs pet cat owners to dispell this/ these days the press is so fickle and finally the only way forwards is to help rach other sort out the rotten elemsnts get the breeds sorted and truly CARE for the cats - babs x

[Chrissi]

I still don't see why anyone would want to produce such extreme dogs as those show GSDs. Who in their right minds wants to breed dogs that can barely walk??????

I didn't watch the programms and i don't like the banana backed GSDs BUT the GSD who won at crufts is supposedly a good example of the german type (don't forget they will be put in the show stance so will look different). And he can move, he can work - he is a Schutzhund III. Not my cup of tea but GSD people will say he's a good example of the breed?

[Banana]

watch the programme chrissi !

[Blossom]

I hav a friend who breeds cavs and hopefully will breed them in the future - maybe!

The KC need to look at each breed and recommend specific health testing for that particular breed. If I look at my breed the KC say that they don't need any health tests but I know as other people in my breed know that we do have specific problems and ethical breeders WILL test. My girls are tested. I would never even consider breeding from either of them if I hadn't health tested them. There are so many breeders out there who "don't believe" that my breed to have specific problems because the KC "says so"!

As fo cross breeds being more heathy to me that is insane! A cross breed would have initially had a parent of 2 different breeds - would th owners of those 2 breeds have had them tested for eac breeds specific problems? Wll if they are going to create a crossbreed then I highly doubt it!! So that crossbreed will then have the possible health problems of both breeds.

[DizzyJenni]

I watched it last night :(

[Banana]

I think her point regarding the cross bread is similar in outcrossing pedigrees - it dilutes the 'issues'...

The reporter I think was saying that by putting such closesly related dogs together the KC/Breeders are making the problems worse and the remedy is to diulte them back..

The breeders are saying that to adhere to the KC SOP and therefore to win Dog Shows - they have to do close matings to get the required winning look...

[rachel]

Bulldogs have to have casaerians Louise because they CANNOT give birth naturally - if there was ever a reason NOT to buy a dog - Im sure that must be it... :bignono:

I want to go and buy a rhodesian ridgeback now without the ridgeback! :lol:



COMPLETELY agree with you Anna! I watched this and was shocked by it all!!

You'd be lucky to find a Ridgeback without a ridgeback :( This bread horrified me the most!! What they do is totally ar$e about face!

[DizzyJenni]

I was so shocked....

The way the poor GSD's were walking at the show :(

http://www.worldclassgsd.com/images/amigo452.jpg

I can't believe people are still putting puppies to sleep if they aren't 'perfect' in the breeders eyes.... that really got to me.

[Carole]

The police GSD that bounded up our drive the other night and got hold of the bloke hiding under the car looked nothing like that - but as they said the police breed their own .... with proper back legs because they need real working dogs.

I just see no reason to produce a dog that looks like that :(

[rachel]

I can't believe people are still putting puppies to sleep if they aren't 'perfect' in the breeders eyes.... that really got to me.



And me... but fact is.... i know of cat breeders who have done the same :(

[spicey]

It's all very sad! :(

[Blossom]

They didn't mention that the GSD was in fact the Germanic type and not the British type.

[Casiat]

Well debate amongst the dog world is still rife!!

Apparantly the cav woman has had to go into hiding fearing for her life.

The KC are in turmoil..............not a bad thing as all they've done over the years for dogs is happily take registration fee's for puppies including those bred by Puppy Farmers and shipped out to puppy supermarkets and the likes of Harrods.(We have one in our breed who registers over 250 malamutes per year and refuses to take back any puppy which owners are not able to keep leaving our breed rescue inundated with badly bred poor specimans of the breed)

I hope a new fresher approach is achieved by the KC bringing in more forward thinking people to run it (just please god not that blinkin fool Evans!!).

In Germany, Switzerland and Finland their respected KC's have a Coeffincency Of Inbreeding percentage level of around 12% anything over that is NOT ALLOWED for registration.

It would be a start..........

Personally I'd like to see a tiered registration process -

Puppy register - all pups to be registered on here but ONLY those from health and temprement tested parents. ALL pups to be microchipped/tattoed before leaving the breeder and breeder is to be retained on file as being responsible for taking back that puppy if required so as not to overburden rescues.

Active Register - a breeder gives permission for a dog to be worked or shown at KC or licensed events. This would then prevent dogs with serious problems being shown and would allow revocation if a problem arose.

Full Register - again breeder permission given (in line with any puppy contract) and full health and temprement tests passed (to be arranged and overseen by the relevant breed clubs along with a registered trainer/behaviorist) along with 2 supportive critiques from show/working judge. This would then allow owners to breed from their dogs.


Now the KC should like this idea as it would bring in further income (!!) and improve the GP's trust in the organisation.


Breeds like Cavs, Ridgies, Bulldogs, Shar pei and even GSD's should be withdrawn from the general open/championship show ring until their respective breed clubs get to grips with the health matters.

It's attitudes in their breeds that make the rest of us who try to improve/maintain type of our beloved breeds look like idiots.

Maybe it's just that I have working breeds, I'm not into the typey dogs you see in the show ring sometimes (although mine do very well thank you - I have the Top Junior at the moment) they need to prove they could still do a job and their construction and health is of the utmost importance to me (only just below Temprement). So I just can't understand breeding dogs that could not possibly work (GSD, Bassett etc)

[Casiat]

They didn't mention that the GSD was in fact the Germanic type and not the British type.

Actually he's more 'europian'!!!

The original GSD's were very much more square - stalwarts of the breed in Germany do not like this dog, many similar sloped dogs that have been able to work as this one has will suffer in later years due to the pressure on thos hips and hocks.

http://66.235.120.64/ts?t=15452901322316705386&pid=23136&ppid=3

[Blossom]

KC will not stop th BYB's in any breed even if they do bring in the tiered system. There are lots of BYB's in my breed. The amount of cr*p being put in the ring at the mo is ridiculous too - and that is just in my breed.

[Banana]

Kennel Club hits back at BBC Dog Documentary

The Kennel Club feels that the programme, Pedigree Dogs Exposed (BBC1 19 August) missed a real opportunity to progress the cause of dog health. It appeared to have a very specific agenda repeating prejudices, providing no context for the debate, and failing to put forward constructive proposals. It left viewers with the mistaken impression that all pedigree dogs are riddled with a wide range of health problems and that the dog community is doing little or nothing to improve the situation. This is patently not true.

Whilst the Kennel Club was shocked and saddened by the dramatic imagery used in the programme, and accepts some of the important issues raised. What it does not accept is that these problems apply widely across the 200 plus breeds in the UK. Pedigree Dogs Exposed also failed to show the real progress being made by both the Kennel Club and responsible breeders in improving dog health or to recognise that 90 percent of dogs will not suffer from health problems that have a detrimental impact on the quality of life.

More than that, the programme drew upon a new study on dog genetics by Imperial College to underline its criticisms of dog breeding, without acknowledging the fact this study was entirely enabled by the Kennel Club as part of its commitment to health research. This research will now provide the Kennel Club with a valuable scientific platform to enlist the support of breeders in tackling key health problems where they occur.

Commenting, Caroline Kisko, Kennel Club spokesperson, said: “In reality the gap between some of the views expressed on the programme and those held by both the Kennel Club and most responsible breeders is very small. Over the last 20 years we have been working to develop tests and health screening schemes to identify and eradicate problems, many of which are historic. One example of this is the elimination of canine leucocyte adhesion deficiency (CLAD) in Irish Setters, that caused early death in puppies which was eradicated through the concerted efforts of both the Kennel Club and Irish Setter breeders.

“However, it is important to put this into context. The Kennel Club has no legal standing, unlike some similar bodies in other countries. We have to work on these issues through partnership and persuasion – not coercion. The danger of introducing draconian measures is that some breeders could choose to operate outside the Kennel Club’s jurisdiction; with absolutely no controls. That cannot be the best way forward.

“The programme also made some sweeping, and far from accurate assertions. The Kennel Club refutes that it would put ‘looks’ above the health of pedigree dogs, in fact we actively discourage the exaggeration of features in any breed. The standards have been, and will continue to be amended when necessary to ensure the breeding of healthy, well conformed dogs. Dog show judges are also educated to judge to those standards ensuring that dogs with obvious problems that could affect their quality of life do not win, and that the rewards go to fit, healthy dogs. All of this of course is dependent on the responsibility of breeders and owners – and this is where our efforts must be concentrated.”

“We can state categorically that the majority of pedigree dogs in the UK are healthy. We increasingly have in place checks to monitor health issues going forward. In those few breeds where there are problems, including those highlighted in the programme, we have been and will continue to work with breeders to improve long term health through the development of tests and screening programmes.”

Kennel Club health initiatives include: funding research to identify problems and develop efficient screening for health, such as eye testing and hip scoring; the introduction of the Accredited Breeder Scheme, to act as a ‘kite mark’ for responsible breeders; and most recently the launch of a major campaign which seeks further to promote health improvements across breeds - ‘Fit for function – fit for life’. This, in conjunction with breed clubs, focuses on tackling unnecessary exaggeration in some breeds, whether that is of coat, weight, skin, angulation, eye formation or shortness of muzzle. All dogs should be fit for function, even if that function is to be a pet - all dogs should be able to see, breath and walk freely.

“By their lack of context, programmes such as Pedigree Dogs Exposed, far from helping the situation run the risk of damaging the work already being done. This work will not be carried out by TV production companies – but by the hard work of the Kennel Club and the country’s responsible breeders,” said Caroline Kisko.

In summary, health issues are of primary concern to the Kennel Club but changes cannot be made overnight. We are working proactively with breeders to make these changes – but we are dealing with the legacy of 100 years. What we need is the support of experts such as those featured in the programme, not their condemnation – support which we have indeed received from a number of respected bodies such as The Animal Health Trust, The Blue Cross and the British Veterinary Association.

ENDS
20th August 2008
[227.08]
For further information and interview requests contact:
The Kennel Club Press Office
020 7518 1008 / 07800 93 7070
Press.office@ thekennelclub. org.uk (Press.office%40thekennelclub.org.uk)
www.doggenetichealt h.org

Notes to Editors
The Kennel Club’s efforts concentrate primarily on heritable diseases because these are the ones that pass from generation to generation and have the potential to impact on a breed’s disease burden, generally. Non-heritable conditions affect the individual dog, but have little, if any, impact on the breed moving forward.

The KC has deliberately chosen to work with dog breeders and encourages and educates them on their responsibilities to screen their potential breeding stock with all available health screening programmes for heritable conditions that affect their breed, rather than to mandate that such tests should be undertaken. The KC is also very involved in sponsoring new research that will increase the number of screening programmes for heritable conditions.

The reason that this approach has been adopted is because registration of dogs with the Kennel Club is a voluntary activity, but, at the moment, we actually register the vast majority of the pure bred dogs in the UK. This means that we know how to contact most people that are breeding pure bred dogs and inform them of their responsibilities. We are cautious of becoming overly prescriptive in what we expect so we do not drive people away from the KC registration system. It would be naïve to expect that this would stop breeders from breeding, but it could significantly reduce the impact of the KC’s message, by drastically reducing the numbers of breeders with which we have contact, which would be of little benefit to breeds generally.

This is only a small part of the work the Kennel Club does in improving the health and welfare of pedigree dogs. It is a sad fact that there will always be dogs in need of further care and attention and we hope that through continued work and research, and contributions from the Kennel Club Charitable Trust, we can continue to make a real difference to the health of these dogs.


:holysheep:

[capricciosababs]

welll - all we can do is to o our best to breed happy healthy cats without too many problems - no wonder some vets are suspicious of breeders - thankfully ours arent - theyve see us for years tey know our babies - its a shame if the public sees this tv show as offputting to pedigrees though so perhaps some positive sesible PR is called for say wef the supreme so that people can see some happy healthy contented cats in our care? maybe this needed to be on air to alert all of us to the far and few who dont breed to the best interests of canines felines or others? so many sensible comments on this thread thanks anna

[Chrissi]

in fear of getting banned if i didn't do as anna told me, i watched the programme... :bleh:

I stand by my comments about the GSD, he can and does work. i personally do not like his type, i like my gsd's to not be banana backed and I have no interested in dog showing at all. The only reason i go to crufts is the shopping.

The thought of culling puppies for no reason makes my blood boil, and she was so matter of fact about it!! Disgusting. How as a decent human being, could anyone buy a puppy from someone with those morals? I know i certainly wouldn't. The fact that an ill dog can even enter a dog show is beyond me, why put them through it? At the end of the day is some bit of ribbon and a few letters in front of it's name worth it?

I don't suppose the cat world is such a big distance away from the dog world. you see the same old cats cropping up in pedigrees all the time...

[Carole]

I can't help thinking there may well be a lot of Cavalier puppies around who it will be difficult to find homes for :(

[Chrissi]

I just hope there is not a massive influx of dogs put in rescue now either by panicked owners or breeders who can't sell their puppies :(

[TinaB]

I was shocked at the programme, whilst I have always known the GSD has been ruined with over-typing, it is very difficult for experienced owners like myself to find someone who doesn't breed for the slant... all these dogs are hip tested before being bred from, so what exactly are the hip scores checking if the dog cannot walk properly?????

my last shep, Jodie, could not walk properly in the end, we had to have her put to sleep because of her lack of co-ordination, I count myself lucky we got her to the age of 10, life expectancy now, I dread to think, 5 or 6 years if you are lucky!!!

I was appalled at the distorted spines in Pugs in order to get the 'correct' curls in it's tail, also the poor poor CKC... how awful to breed a skull too small for the animal's brain... they are such a lovely dog, now I would not touch one with a barge pole, and I suspect as Carole mentioned, a lot of people will not buy those puppies now, but seriously, who can blame them :shock:

am waiting for the Cat Fancy to receive the same treatment now....

[Banana]

in fear of getting banned if i didn't do as anna told me, i watched the programme... :bleh:



You are a good girl! :p

[Dragonsausage]

Well the KC are now saying all the right things.....Hope they can put it all into practice...

[Carole]

I've been reading some of the posts on Cavalier forums - oh boy! :(